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	<title>Comments on: The HeismanPundit.com Heisman Poll, 11/10</title>
	<atom:link href="http://heismanpundit.com/2009/11/10/the-heismanpundit-com-heisman-poll-1110/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://heismanpundit.com/2009/11/10/the-heismanpundit-com-heisman-poll-1110/</link>
	<description>Breaking Down The Politics Of The Most Prestigious Award In Sports</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 19:30:33 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: JUSTAFAN</title>
		<link>http://heismanpundit.com/2009/11/10/the-heismanpundit-com-heisman-poll-1110/comment-page-1/#comment-11785</link>
		<dc:creator>JUSTAFAN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 13:57:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heismanpundit.com/?p=3609#comment-11785</guid>
		<description>STAT  FOR  STAT,  TCU&#039;S  ANDY  DALTON  IS  AS
GOOD  AS  MCCOY  OR  TEBOW  THIS  YEAR.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>STAT  FOR  STAT,  TCU&#8217;S  ANDY  DALTON  IS  AS<br />
GOOD  AS  MCCOY  OR  TEBOW  THIS  YEAR.</p>
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		<title>By: slippy</title>
		<link>http://heismanpundit.com/2009/11/10/the-heismanpundit-com-heisman-poll-1110/comment-page-1/#comment-11768</link>
		<dc:creator>slippy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 18:32:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heismanpundit.com/?p=3609#comment-11768</guid>
		<description>I would like to restate my point that those sorts of opinions are of a) homer fans or b) people with low understanding of the game of football.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to restate my point that those sorts of opinions are of a) homer fans or b) people with low understanding of the game of football.</p>
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		<title>By: slippy</title>
		<link>http://heismanpundit.com/2009/11/10/the-heismanpundit-com-heisman-poll-1110/comment-page-1/#comment-11767</link>
		<dc:creator>slippy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 18:31:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heismanpundit.com/?p=3609#comment-11767</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t say bad things happen when he throws.  Bad things happen when he HAS to throw.  But how many times has Florida been down with little time left?  There&#039;s a reason he only has 1 (I think, feel free to correct me, but I know its not more than 2 or 3) 4th quarter comeback in his life.  The talent around him is spectacular enough to keep his team from falling behind, and he&#039;s just not a great passed.  You put Florida against a good rush defense down 10 with 7 minutes to play, Tebow can not lead them back.  That&#039;s the difference with him and Keenum.

Keenum throws that many times because he has to for his team to win.  If Tebow HAS to throw to win, they won&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t say bad things happen when he throws.  Bad things happen when he HAS to throw.  But how many times has Florida been down with little time left?  There&#8217;s a reason he only has 1 (I think, feel free to correct me, but I know its not more than 2 or 3) 4th quarter comeback in his life.  The talent around him is spectacular enough to keep his team from falling behind, and he&#8217;s just not a great passed.  You put Florida against a good rush defense down 10 with 7 minutes to play, Tebow can not lead them back.  That&#8217;s the difference with him and Keenum.</p>
<p>Keenum throws that many times because he has to for his team to win.  If Tebow HAS to throw to win, they won&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://heismanpundit.com/2009/11/10/the-heismanpundit-com-heisman-poll-1110/comment-page-1/#comment-11765</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 15:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heismanpundit.com/?p=3609#comment-11765</guid>
		<description>One poster mentioned only Ingram&#039;s rushing touchdowns.  Why ignore his receiving yards and TDs?  He now has 13 touchdowns rushing and receiving combined, and he likely will end up with 2,000 combined yards.  It&#039;s pretty silly to overlook his receiving stats.  

6.7 yards per carry is hardly &quot;pedestrian&quot;.  With a quality back-up like Richardson, and the fact that Saban won&#039;t just let Ingram pile up meaningless stats, the fact is that Ingram has only 19 carries per game.  Had Ingram been able to carry the ball an extra 5 or 6 times per game over the course of the season, we would be looking at 2,000 rushing yards for the year, and there would be no debate about him winning the Heisman.  Most voters, I think, understand that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One poster mentioned only Ingram&#8217;s rushing touchdowns.  Why ignore his receiving yards and TDs?  He now has 13 touchdowns rushing and receiving combined, and he likely will end up with 2,000 combined yards.  It&#8217;s pretty silly to overlook his receiving stats.  </p>
<p>6.7 yards per carry is hardly &#8220;pedestrian&#8221;.  With a quality back-up like Richardson, and the fact that Saban won&#8217;t just let Ingram pile up meaningless stats, the fact is that Ingram has only 19 carries per game.  Had Ingram been able to carry the ball an extra 5 or 6 times per game over the course of the season, we would be looking at 2,000 rushing yards for the year, and there would be no debate about him winning the Heisman.  Most voters, I think, understand that.</p>
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		<title>By: sandymex</title>
		<link>http://heismanpundit.com/2009/11/10/the-heismanpundit-com-heisman-poll-1110/comment-page-1/#comment-11737</link>
		<dc:creator>sandymex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 07:00:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heismanpundit.com/?p=3609#comment-11737</guid>
		<description>Tebow faced the 10th best pass defense last week and will face 7th best pass defense tomorrow. While Keenum faced the 110th best defense last week (out of 120) and will face the 114th best pass defense tomorrow. I pointed out how well Tebow has fared against the kinds of defenses Keenum faces on a weekly basis.

You say bad things happen when Tebow throws, but if that&#039;s true, why does Tebow have a nearly identical passer rating to Keenum?  If Tebow hadn&#039;t faced his long-time mentor, he would currently have the better passer rating.

28.8% of Florida plays are Tebow passes. 59.3% of Houston plays are Keenum passes. Despite Houston&#039;s pass-happy attack, UF averages almost as many yards/play - 6.6 for UF, 6.8 for Houston. Keenum is only averaging 0.2 yards/play more against much worse defenses.

These numbers are comparable because Tebow uses the option very much like Keenum throws the dink pass. The difference is that Tebow&#039;s option pitches don&#039;t appear anywhere in his stats. But UF has three rushers in the top 30 in the nation in yards/carry because Tebow is such a threat and runs the option so well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tebow faced the 10th best pass defense last week and will face 7th best pass defense tomorrow. While Keenum faced the 110th best defense last week (out of 120) and will face the 114th best pass defense tomorrow. I pointed out how well Tebow has fared against the kinds of defenses Keenum faces on a weekly basis.</p>
<p>You say bad things happen when Tebow throws, but if that&#8217;s true, why does Tebow have a nearly identical passer rating to Keenum?  If Tebow hadn&#8217;t faced his long-time mentor, he would currently have the better passer rating.</p>
<p>28.8% of Florida plays are Tebow passes. 59.3% of Houston plays are Keenum passes. Despite Houston&#8217;s pass-happy attack, UF averages almost as many yards/play &#8211; 6.6 for UF, 6.8 for Houston. Keenum is only averaging 0.2 yards/play more against much worse defenses.</p>
<p>These numbers are comparable because Tebow uses the option very much like Keenum throws the dink pass. The difference is that Tebow&#8217;s option pitches don&#8217;t appear anywhere in his stats. But UF has three rushers in the top 30 in the nation in yards/carry because Tebow is such a threat and runs the option so well.</p>
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		<title>By: slippy</title>
		<link>http://heismanpundit.com/2009/11/10/the-heismanpundit-com-heisman-poll-1110/comment-page-1/#comment-11734</link>
		<dc:creator>slippy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 05:05:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heismanpundit.com/?p=3609#comment-11734</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not touting Keenum - just pointing out the flawed logic in the previous poster&#039;s argument.  You also didn&#039;t argue my point, which I will assume means you agree with me.  Keenum throws 50 times a game because he has to for a win.  If Tebow threw 50 times a game, his stats would be ugly.

As other people have pointed out however, Keenum has played a similar schedule to Colt McCoy.

Saying Tebow plays in the toughest conference is a subjective argument.

Talking about how bad Mississippi St&#039;s pass defense is just hurts Tebows campaign.  In case you forgot: 12/22 127 yards 0 TD 2 INT (both returned for TDs).  Keenum: 39/52 434 yards 4 TD 2 INT (one returned for TD).  Florida won by 10 (on a completely BS TD return by Doe), Houston by 7.

Guess what else?  Houston has beaten the same number of ranked teams Florida has.

I&#039;m not saying Keenum should win, or should finish higher than Tebow.  You just need to come up with arguments that actually hold water.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not touting Keenum &#8211; just pointing out the flawed logic in the previous poster&#8217;s argument.  You also didn&#8217;t argue my point, which I will assume means you agree with me.  Keenum throws 50 times a game because he has to for a win.  If Tebow threw 50 times a game, his stats would be ugly.</p>
<p>As other people have pointed out however, Keenum has played a similar schedule to Colt McCoy.</p>
<p>Saying Tebow plays in the toughest conference is a subjective argument.</p>
<p>Talking about how bad Mississippi St&#8217;s pass defense is just hurts Tebows campaign.  In case you forgot: 12/22 127 yards 0 TD 2 INT (both returned for TDs).  Keenum: 39/52 434 yards 4 TD 2 INT (one returned for TD).  Florida won by 10 (on a completely BS TD return by Doe), Houston by 7.</p>
<p>Guess what else?  Houston has beaten the same number of ranked teams Florida has.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying Keenum should win, or should finish higher than Tebow.  You just need to come up with arguments that actually hold water.</p>
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		<title>By: sandymex</title>
		<link>http://heismanpundit.com/2009/11/10/the-heismanpundit-com-heisman-poll-1110/comment-page-1/#comment-11733</link>
		<dc:creator>sandymex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 22:39:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heismanpundit.com/?p=3609#comment-11733</guid>
		<description>Slippy -

A blatant disregard for an understanding of football? Comments like that are what really turn off sensible fans to Keenum. I have no problem with Keenum being among the front runners, but I do have a problem with those who dismiss other deserving candidates. The context problem with Keenum is that he&#039;s faced awful defenses. The very best pass defense he has faced was 9th in the SEC.

Tebow is leading the #1 team in the nation, has won 19 straight games, and is playing in the toughest conference in the nation. He has persevered despite a decimated receiver corps, a struggling offensive line (more sacks than the last 3 years combined), and a new offensive coordinator. He&#039;s suffered a concussion and played through injury and illness.

Keenum-level competition this year was Charleston Southern and Troy.  Rounding Tebow up to 4 quarters of play and extrapolating that over 9 games yields 45 passing TDs, 0 INTs, 18 rushing TDs, with over 4500 yards of offense. That&#039;s what playing whole games against the Mickey Mouse Club will do for you.

Ingram, McCoy and Tebow still have opportunities to be difference-makers.  Keenum&#039;s biggest risk is making an ass of himself like he did against Tulane or having another disastrous fumble returned for a TD like he did against UTEP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Slippy -</p>
<p>A blatant disregard for an understanding of football? Comments like that are what really turn off sensible fans to Keenum. I have no problem with Keenum being among the front runners, but I do have a problem with those who dismiss other deserving candidates. The context problem with Keenum is that he&#8217;s faced awful defenses. The very best pass defense he has faced was 9th in the SEC.</p>
<p>Tebow is leading the #1 team in the nation, has won 19 straight games, and is playing in the toughest conference in the nation. He has persevered despite a decimated receiver corps, a struggling offensive line (more sacks than the last 3 years combined), and a new offensive coordinator. He&#8217;s suffered a concussion and played through injury and illness.</p>
<p>Keenum-level competition this year was Charleston Southern and Troy.  Rounding Tebow up to 4 quarters of play and extrapolating that over 9 games yields 45 passing TDs, 0 INTs, 18 rushing TDs, with over 4500 yards of offense. That&#8217;s what playing whole games against the Mickey Mouse Club will do for you.</p>
<p>Ingram, McCoy and Tebow still have opportunities to be difference-makers.  Keenum&#8217;s biggest risk is making an ass of himself like he did against Tulane or having another disastrous fumble returned for a TD like he did against UTEP.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://heismanpundit.com/2009/11/10/the-heismanpundit-com-heisman-poll-1110/comment-page-1/#comment-11727</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 15:02:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heismanpundit.com/?p=3609#comment-11727</guid>
		<description>Interesting stats on Mark Ingram from Chris Low&#039;s blog:

Mark Ingram is tied for second nationally with 38 rushes of 10 yards or more and has nine receptions of 10 yards or more for a total of 47 plays of 10 yards or more. &lt;b&gt;Of Ingram’s 199 touches (175 rushes, 24 receptions), almost a quarter (23.6 percent) have gone for at least 10 yards.&lt;/b&gt;

&lt;b&gt;Ingram has gained 752 of his 1,364 rushing/receiving yards after contact this season, accounting for 55.1 percent of his total yards.&lt;/b&gt; He reeled off a season-best 167 total yards after contact against South Carolina on 24 rushes and two receptions. He also broke the 100-yard barrier on yards after contact against Virginia Tech (115) and LSU (107) and got close at Ole Miss (95).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting stats on Mark Ingram from Chris Low&#8217;s blog:</p>
<p>Mark Ingram is tied for second nationally with 38 rushes of 10 yards or more and has nine receptions of 10 yards or more for a total of 47 plays of 10 yards or more. <b>Of Ingram’s 199 touches (175 rushes, 24 receptions), almost a quarter (23.6 percent) have gone for at least 10 yards.</b></p>
<p><b>Ingram has gained 752 of his 1,364 rushing/receiving yards after contact this season, accounting for 55.1 percent of his total yards.</b> He reeled off a season-best 167 total yards after contact against South Carolina on 24 rushes and two receptions. He also broke the 100-yard barrier on yards after contact against Virginia Tech (115) and LSU (107) and got close at Ole Miss (95).</p>
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		<title>By: slippy</title>
		<link>http://heismanpundit.com/2009/11/10/the-heismanpundit-com-heisman-poll-1110/comment-page-1/#comment-11716</link>
		<dc:creator>slippy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 00:40:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heismanpundit.com/?p=3609#comment-11716</guid>
		<description>sandy - his error was a typo.  Houston is averaging 44 ppg, not 24.

Regardless, statements like &quot;If Tebow threw as much as Keenum, he would have 29 TDs.&quot; show a blatant disregard for an understanding of football.  If Tebow threw as much as Keenum, his completion percentage would be lower, his TD rate would be lower, and his INTs would be higher.  Tebow is just as much a &#039;system&#039; QB as Keenum is.  His ability to run the ball is what makes his passing threat so high.  When teams know Tebow has to throw is when Florida is at their worst.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sandy &#8211; his error was a typo.  Houston is averaging 44 ppg, not 24.</p>
<p>Regardless, statements like &#8220;If Tebow threw as much as Keenum, he would have 29 TDs.&#8221; show a blatant disregard for an understanding of football.  If Tebow threw as much as Keenum, his completion percentage would be lower, his TD rate would be lower, and his INTs would be higher.  Tebow is just as much a &#8216;system&#8217; QB as Keenum is.  His ability to run the ball is what makes his passing threat so high.  When teams know Tebow has to throw is when Florida is at their worst.</p>
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		<title>By: sandymex</title>
		<link>http://heismanpundit.com/2009/11/10/the-heismanpundit-com-heisman-poll-1110/comment-page-1/#comment-11715</link>
		<dc:creator>sandymex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 00:32:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heismanpundit.com/?p=3609#comment-11715</guid>
		<description>Roby -

Minor error:
Houston’s Points per play= .28
Florida’s Points per play= .53</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roby -</p>
<p>Minor error:<br />
Houston’s Points per play= .28<br />
Florida’s Points per play= .53</p>
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