Football players thought that way back in 1950 when his attitudes were forged. That’s all. Times have changed, and for the better.

Now, it’s true there are still some 20- and 25-year-olds who think like that. Now THOSE folks are douchebags.

As for Hornung, I’ve heard of worse reasons for excluding someone. In 1956 many voters left Jim Brown off their ballots because of his skin color. Any guesses as to what 2-8 quarterback was the beneficiary?

I had not seen that comment by Hornung. Geez Louise…I mean, if he feels that way, fine–it’s sort of stupid, but it’s his vote, let him do what he wants with it–but to tell people that, as though he’s proud of it? What a nutter.

OK, I’ll stop now.

I don’t think I would be upset if McCoy won, but that’s mostly based on the fact that I felt he should have won last year.

Did you see Paul Hornung’s comment? He said he had Tebow on his ballot until he saw him crying. What the? I hope the rest of the voters are a little more open minded than that. That’s ridiculous.

It’s funny, I started out being very pro-Ingram, but after HP voted for Gerhart, and I looked a little closer, I’ve really come around him, and now I’m pretty torn. At this point, I’d feel comfortable with either winning it.

I’d also love for Suh to win it, for a different reason. To be honest, I don’t think it’s really deserved…not in the sense that it’s not *deserved,* but that it’s almost entirely the product of one game. He had a good season, but it’s kind of crazy that people are so fired up about voting for a DT who averaged 1/2 sack/game and 1 TFL during the regular season. Still, I’d appreciate the precedent; defensive players deserve a lot more hype than they get–especially DTs.

I’m much more torn on McCoy…HP was right, it’s difficult to overstate how tough it was to lead his team to an undefeated season, given the expectation level and how little else they have offensively. But at the same, time, the Big 12 was way down this season, and his candidacy seems to speak to one of the weaknesses of the Heisman, i.e. that it is a career award, and largely based on preseason reputation.

But yes, good discussion, guys.

(I should say, on the Ingram v. S Car thing, the argument is more one of game theory than actual performance–in other words, if Ingram hadn’t been getting his yards, S Car would have had better field position, thus putting them in a position to get more points on offense–but the details aren’t really important.)

Regardless of our beliefs, though, SAT results are making it look like it’s Ingram in a tight one. His lead over Gerhart is currently approximately equal to the largest margin of error SAT has had in any season since 2002. In 2002 SAT only had 127 counted ballots – it’s 242 this year already, which is about as many as they’ve ever gotten (the record was 249 in both 2007 and 2008).

I hypothesize that the folks whose ballots are unknown to SAT – because they are not trumpeting them – are more likely than the group whose ballots are known to be relatively uninformed, which means that below-the-radar candidates like Gerhart and Suh will probably do less well than they do with the folks whose ballots ARE known.

In other words, I expect Ingram to do slightly better with that group than he is doing with the group whose results they are posting. McCoy will do much better with that group, but he is too far behind to catch up. Tebow will probably do well enough to crack the top 5 such that his 3rd trip to the Apple won’t just be a gift.

What should the Heisman Trophy represent? Without listing all the traits I think it should be, suffice to say that Gerhart IS the Heisman Trophy. He carried his whole team…Hearing people say Ingram is “the best player on the best team” and “Alabama has never won a Heisman Trophy” as valid reasons to vote for him makes me want to rip my ears off.

When I watched Ingram, I was very impressed, but I never thought to myself “DAMN! This guy could win the Heisman!” Every single time I watched Gerhart run the ball, I DID say that. There is nobody in college football like Gerhart. There are several RB’s throughout the country that could likely step in and duplicate what Ingram did. Nobody could duplicate Gerhart.

—Re: The South Carolina game, I won’t argue that his performance was amazing. It was. It was this board that brought to light how amazing it really was…..Notre Dame doesn’t have a defense like Carolina, not even close. But STANFORD SUCKS! Gerhart is doing all of this on his own. He’s not running behind blocks, he’s TRUCKING EVERYONE on his own. He put Stanford on his back ALL SEASON. I just don’t think you can say that about Ingram……

***If Ingram missed the Carolina game, Bama likely wins anyway (as Carolina had 6 points). If Gerhart missed the ND game, Stanford loses by 10-20+ points. No question.***

—Winning???? Stanford would have a LOSING record without Gerhart. I get the sense that we are all in agreement with that statement. Gerhart MADE STANFORD A WINNER. Bama is a winner with or without Ingram, and likely undefeated, in my opinion.

I would say that is the definition of a winner in terms of an individual. This is an INDIVIDUAL award. Bama will play in the BCS championship game and that’s when the team can get their trophy.

Note: I wasn’t suggesting Richardson was better than Ingram. That would be ignorant. I was merely stating that I think if he replaced Ingram, he could put up similar (but lesser) numbers and Bama would still be 12-0. I don’t think we would notice a huge difference in Bama’s offensive production.