Comments on: Heisman Aftermath http://heismanpundit.com/2009/12/12/heisman-aftermath/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=heisman-aftermath Breaking Down The Politics Of The Most Prestigious Award In Sports Mon, 21 May 2012 01:02:23 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Ed Newman http://heismanpundit.com/2009/12/12/heisman-aftermath/comment-page-1/#comment-13043 Ed Newman Thu, 17 Dec 2009 15:44:00 +0000 http://heismanpundit.com/?p=4054#comment-13043 HP, No one should add receiving yards to rushing totals-that's just stupid. But you can't ignore all purpose yardage either. Reggie Bush NEVER would have won the Heisman on his rushing totals alone. Overall I agree that Ingram is the least impressive Heisman RB that I can remember at least back to 1970. I am not saying he didn't deserve the award. Nobody else was significantly more impressive this year. And please stop it with what would have happened had Ingram or Gerhardt played for another team. You don't know. Ingram might have broken down with more carries. Gerhardt might have wilted under the SEC championship pressure or behind a less stellar line. Coaches might have used them differently. You can really only go by what actually happened. HP,

No one should add receiving yards to rushing totals-that’s just stupid. But you can’t ignore all purpose yardage either. Reggie Bush NEVER would have won the Heisman on his rushing totals alone.

Overall I agree that Ingram is the least impressive Heisman RB that I can remember at least back to 1970. I am not saying he didn’t deserve the award. Nobody else was significantly more impressive this year. And please stop it with what would have happened had Ingram or Gerhardt played for another team. You don’t know. Ingram might have broken down with more carries. Gerhardt might have wilted under the SEC championship pressure or behind a less stellar line. Coaches might have used them differently. You can really only go by what actually happened.

]]> By: sandymex http://heismanpundit.com/2009/12/12/heisman-aftermath/comment-page-1/#comment-13037 sandymex Thu, 17 Dec 2009 05:34:08 +0000 http://heismanpundit.com/?p=4054#comment-13037 Gerhart rushed the ball 62 more times than Ingram. That's more opportunities for Gerhart, not less. At 6.2 yards/carry Ingram would have netted 384 more yards with the same number of opportunities. I love the fact that you've got to pretend Ingram's reception yards shouldn't count. It was a case study in denial when you claimed Ingram only had 113 yards against Florida. In reality, Ingram had 189 yards and his 69 yard reception was the play of the game. Ignoring receptions doesn't make them go away, but it might explain why you insist Ingram is unworthy. I wonder how much higher Ingram's yard/carry average would have been if he had played behind Stanford's All-American offensive line? Gerhart rushed the ball 62 more times than Ingram. That’s more opportunities for Gerhart, not less. At 6.2 yards/carry Ingram would have netted 384 more yards with the same number of opportunities.

I love the fact that you’ve got to pretend Ingram’s reception yards shouldn’t count. It was a case study in denial when you claimed Ingram only had 113 yards against Florida. In reality, Ingram had 189 yards and his 69 yard reception was the play of the game. Ignoring receptions doesn’t make them go away, but it might explain why you insist Ingram is unworthy.

I wonder how much higher Ingram’s yard/carry average would have been if he had played behind Stanford’s All-American offensive line?

]]> By: HP http://heismanpundit.com/2009/12/12/heisman-aftermath/comment-page-1/#comment-13019 HP Tue, 15 Dec 2009 21:53:44 +0000 http://heismanpundit.com/?p=4054#comment-13019 Ingram wouldn't get 1,542 yards in the Pac-10 since he'd only have a 12 game schedule--it took him 13 to rush for what he did--and wouldn't get to play 7 home games and three games against non-BCS competition. By the way, since when do people add receiving yards to a back's rushing totals to pad his stats? This is the first year I've seen that happen. Running backs are running backs...let's go by what he ran for. Ingram wouldn’t get 1,542 yards in the Pac-10 since he’d only have a 12 game schedule–it took him 13 to rush for what he did–and wouldn’t get to play 7 home games and three games against non-BCS competition.

By the way, since when do people add receiving yards to a back’s rushing totals to pad his stats? This is the first year I’ve seen that happen. Running backs are running backs…let’s go by what he ran for.

]]> By: sandymex http://heismanpundit.com/2009/12/12/heisman-aftermath/comment-page-1/#comment-13014 sandymex Tue, 15 Dec 2009 16:27:50 +0000 http://heismanpundit.com/?p=4054#comment-13014 Ingram's best chance at winning another Heisman is to transfer to a Pac 10 school. Where 4 more losses, 4 more fumbles, and 42 more touches for 21 more yards would more than double his vote total. Ingram’s best chance at winning another Heisman is to transfer to a Pac 10 school. Where 4 more losses, 4 more fumbles, and 42 more touches for 21 more yards would more than double his vote total.

]]> By: Roby http://heismanpundit.com/2009/12/12/heisman-aftermath/comment-page-1/#comment-13010 Roby Tue, 15 Dec 2009 03:56:16 +0000 http://heismanpundit.com/?p=4054#comment-13010 No way Ingram wins next year. Richardson is going to take even more carries away from him. And there is no way voters give a second Heisman to a guy with mediocre numbers. He isn't even going to be on the short list. The voters who kept him off their ballots this year will certainly do the same next year to avoid giving 2 Heismans to a player who is barely above average. No way Ingram wins next year. Richardson is going to take even more carries away from him. And there is no way voters give a second Heisman to a guy with mediocre numbers. He isn’t even going to be on the short list. The voters who kept him off their ballots this year will certainly do the same next year to avoid giving 2 Heismans to a player who is barely above average.

]]> By: Tommy http://heismanpundit.com/2009/12/12/heisman-aftermath/comment-page-1/#comment-12991 Tommy Mon, 14 Dec 2009 17:29:03 +0000 http://heismanpundit.com/?p=4054#comment-12991 So if we're talking about 2010 already... will Ingram have a better chance of repeating than most simply because he put up mediocre numbers this year? If he's able to top it next year, which is a pretty good bet, how many people will point to the stats and say "he had a better year than his Heisman season!"? So if we’re talking about 2010 already… will Ingram have a better chance of repeating than most simply because he put up mediocre numbers this year? If he’s able to top it next year, which is a pretty good bet, how many people will point to the stats and say “he had a better year than his Heisman season!”?

]]> By: Ed Newman http://heismanpundit.com/2009/12/12/heisman-aftermath/comment-page-1/#comment-12989 Ed Newman Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:28:56 +0000 http://heismanpundit.com/?p=4054#comment-12989 Hey Hook em, McCoy took that most wins record from David Greene at Georgia. Are you saying that Greene should have won a Heisman too? Most wins is so team dependent over a 4 year period that it can not be considered a justification for a Heisman. HP, If you're gonna brag about your poll getting all four finalists right and brag about predicting 4x800+ point finalists, then be even-handed and point out that you missed on your personal prediction of McCoy. Hey Hook em,

McCoy took that most wins record from David Greene at Georgia. Are you saying that Greene should have won a Heisman too? Most wins is so team dependent over a 4 year period that it can not be considered a justification for a Heisman.

HP,

If you’re gonna brag about your poll getting all four finalists right and brag about predicting 4×800+ point finalists, then be even-handed and point out that you missed on your personal prediction of McCoy.

]]> By: sandymex http://heismanpundit.com/2009/12/12/heisman-aftermath/comment-page-1/#comment-12987 sandymex Mon, 14 Dec 2009 06:09:32 +0000 http://heismanpundit.com/?p=4054#comment-12987 The Pac 10's reputation has taken a bit of a hit due to their opposition to expansion, a conference championship game and playoffs. But they remain one of the most favored conferences in Heisman voting: Counting each year by each team in a conference as a chance to win and dividing by the number of Heismans shows which conferences have been favored. From most favored to least favored: Big 12: 168/4 = 42.0 chances/Heisman Pac 10: 439/10 = 43.9 Big 10: 754/16 = 47.1 SEC: 852/10 = 85.2 So despite being a great source of talent, the SEC has been least favored and the Pac 10 and Big 12 have been most favored. The Pac 10′s reputation has taken a bit of a hit due to their opposition to expansion, a conference championship game and playoffs. But they remain one of the most favored conferences in Heisman voting:

Counting each year by each team in a conference as a chance to win and dividing by the number of Heismans shows which conferences have been favored. From most favored to least favored:
Big 12: 168/4 = 42.0 chances/Heisman
Pac 10: 439/10 = 43.9
Big 10: 754/16 = 47.1
SEC: 852/10 = 85.2

So despite being a great source of talent, the SEC has been least favored and the Pac 10 and Big 12 have been most favored.

]]> By: DruggyBear http://heismanpundit.com/2009/12/12/heisman-aftermath/comment-page-1/#comment-12985 DruggyBear Sun, 13 Dec 2009 22:33:54 +0000 http://heismanpundit.com/?p=4054#comment-12985 the Pac-10 bears some responsibility for this travesty as well. why didn't they campaign independently for Gerhart? the lack of a championship game doesn't help either ok Stanford may not have been in it this year but why don't they just add BYU and Utah and go Pac-12 already? that would strengthen the western voting bloc in Utah and also Nevada, where many fans of those schools live. not to mention what it would do to help the Pac-10 in the BCS.... the Pac-10 bears some responsibility for this travesty as well. why didn’t they campaign independently for Gerhart?

the lack of a championship game doesn’t help either ok Stanford may not have been in it this year but why don’t they just add BYU and Utah and go Pac-12 already? that would strengthen the western voting bloc in Utah and also Nevada, where many fans of those schools live.

not to mention what it would do to help the Pac-10 in the BCS….

]]> By: Glen Turner http://heismanpundit.com/2009/12/12/heisman-aftermath/comment-page-1/#comment-12984 Glen Turner Sun, 13 Dec 2009 19:01:46 +0000 http://heismanpundit.com/?p=4054#comment-12984 Although it's true that Auburn successfully keyed on Ingram, I also think he was off his game a little bit in that game. But it's worth noting that Auburn was at the best Alabama's 6th-toughest game on the season (after Florida, LSU, VA Tech, Ole Miss, South Carolina, and Arkansas). Against the other 5, Ingram averaged 170 rushing and 36 receiving. Ingram made the difference between a team that is playing for the national championship and a team going to the Capitol One Bowl at best. Are Gerhart and Su legit candidates? Absolutely, and I'm not saying otherwise. But people who are saying this award is a "joke," etc. do not have a clue. Ingram wins under the traditional criteria of best play on the biggest stages. Although it’s true that Auburn successfully keyed on Ingram, I also think he was off his game a little bit in that game.

But it’s worth noting that Auburn was at the best Alabama’s 6th-toughest game on the season (after Florida, LSU, VA Tech, Ole Miss, South Carolina, and Arkansas). Against the other 5, Ingram averaged 170 rushing and 36 receiving.

Ingram made the difference between a team that is playing for the national championship and a team going to the Capitol One Bowl at best.

Are Gerhart and Su legit candidates? Absolutely, and I’m not saying otherwise. But people who are saying this award is a “joke,” etc. do not have a clue. Ingram wins under the traditional criteria of best play on the biggest stages.

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